Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Poe in the news


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
RE: Poe in the news
Permalink   
 


Midnight,

Fuller's 'love letters' incident v. Poe happened in 1847.  Fuller was very close to Greeley, who published the Griswold libel; I didn't say she was with Greeley at the time of Poe's death in 1849.

Eliot's grandfather, a Unitarian student at the Harvard Divinity School, knew both Ellery CHANNING and Emerson; William Greenleaf Eliot was from New England and relocated to St. Louis to start a Unitarian church there.  Emerson was also a friend of the James Family (the philosopher William James was Emerson's godson) who moved in the same Harvard/Anglophilic circles as T.S. Eliot.   Eliot and the Moderns damned Poe because he represented something they were trying to overthrow.

Oxford U. Press published Poe.  Poe sells.   Why shouldn't they publish him?

Poe is our Shakespeare.  He's simply to big to ignore.  But he has been mistreated.

In your calendar, May 25 is "Ralph Waldo Emerson was born" and you write, "Emerson later referred to Poe as 'the jingle man' because of the almost-juvenile musicality of much of his poetry."

First, Poe's rhythmic beauty and mastery in his poetry is NOT "almost-juvenile."  These are the damning words of Poe's enemies.

Second, Emerson did NOT refer to Poe as 'the jingle man' for this reason.  Emerson's utterance has a conversational context.  Emerson made his 'jingle man' remark in a rage to William Dean Howells when Howells told Emerson he only knew Emerson's protege Ellery CHANNING (the younger) from a review by Poe--who destroyed poor Channing's poetic reputation.  Emerson was mentoring and even financially supporting the poet Channing--who Poe had ruined with his review.

Sure, you can take my theories with a grain of salt.  As I said, 'conspiracies' do not mean every last person has to be involved.

Monday

 



__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
Permalink   
 

YES YES YES!!! GREAT for Professor Paul Lewis in the New Yorker!

His deft response in this week's "Letters" (5/25) to LePore's smear piece against Poe is short but sweet.

Thank You, Professor Lewis!!!!


I am also doing my part (as Thomas Brady) on the Poetry Foundation Blog, Harriet, "Poetry" magazine's blog in talking up Poe and talking down Poe's Modernist enemies...

__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
Permalink   
 

But Harvard has the resources to tell a better story of Poe.  Where is it?  LePore wouldn't have launched that nasty attack if Harvard as a whole wasn't comfortable with it.   Has she been taken to task for it by her colleagues at Harvard?   That's tacit admission of my truth.   Again, as a Poe defender you are too passive, too gullible.   Poe has been SMEARED for 150 years.   If leading colleges don't challenge the smear, they are guilty, because that's what colleges are supposed to do, lead by example, tell the truth.   Sure, I know much of this is just stupidity, not malice.  And yea, Harvard's big; not every janitor, every student, every prof is on some conspiracy.  Of course not.    But it's naive to think conspiracy of any kind ever works that way.    All it takes is a conspiracy of .001 % because the rest don't care, don't know, don't have the energy to challenge, etc.   Are you surprised by the tone against Poe by a Harvard Prof in the New Yorker?  Are you surprised by Harold Bloom of Yale's tone in the NY Review of Books back in the 1980s.  Are you surprised by Yvor Winters of Stamford and the history of his hatred of Poe?  Of Eliot, of Huxley, of Yeats, of Joseph Wood Krutch, of Helen Vendler, of the wide dismissal of Poe in all major academic outlets?   Are you surprised?   I am not.   Poe is not some minor author--then it wouldn't matter.  His world-status is unquestioned.  You know how great Poe is.  Come on, now.  I stand by what I said.



__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
Permalink   
 

I see they're still repeating that silly 'cooping' idea, which has been debunked by John Walsh.  His book "Midnight Dreary" really needs more mention.  It's the only work that traces the origin of the 'cooping theory' to the guy (who didn't like Poe) who invented it!  It's also the only book on Poe that talks about the contemporary author Elizabeth Oakes Smith and her theory that Poe was beaten in connection with love letters.  We KNOW this happened--the 'Belles Belles Belles' on the warpath incident involving Ellet and Osgood and Margaret Fuller--friend of Poe enemy Greeley who conspired with Griswold in the Tribune Obit--and "Dial" friend of Emerson, whose anglophilic circle was at war with the anglophobic Poe.  The "Dial" would publish 'The Waste Land' and T.S. Eliot's smear of Poe in "From Poe to Valery" puts Eliot in the Poe-hating tradition, and what's fascinating about this is that Eliot has very definite transcendentalist (and of course anglophilic) roots.  (Eliot's grandfather, William Greenleaf Eliot married the sister of a transcedentlist poet and also knew Emerson and Channing at the Harvard Divinity School--young Channing was the poet mentored by Emerson who Poe destroyed in a review).  John Walsh's "Midnight Dreary" is MUST reading for all those interested in Poe.  He is the ONLY author I know to at least touch on the most probable cause of Poe's death.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

Even northwest Arkansas is getting in on the Poe bicentennial. This article is from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. I have to admit: it's one of the better Poe bicentennial articles I've read this year (but maybe I'm just in a good mood?).

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

That's a good question, Monday: who do we fault for the "spin" in this article? The dripping venom that squeezes out from between each line of text seems to come directly from the author, though I'm sure both she and the editor had similar viewpoints on Poe (read: bad). Throw in the current economic climate, and you've got something to sink your teeth into.

I also note that her attempts at reading "The Philosophy of Composition" are just awful. Even knowing nothing about Poe biography, she screwed up badly. Poe never claimed to have written "The Raven" backwards - his quote on writing backwards is in regards to another author. He then notes that the true method of writing is usually less glamorous than writers like to pretend (i.e. the alleged "artistic inspiration" that suddenly explodes). He then notes how logically he wrote "The Raven." Lepore's whole argument is that Poe was a liar, but she created this lie herself. Hypocritical?

And Monday, if you're attempting to quote Harold Bloom as a way to convince me of, well, anything, you're definitely going in the wrong direction. I've said this before, but I work a couple blocks from Harvard and have established relationships with plenty of Harvard folks - from administrators to faculty to students. I don't think such an enormous university like Harvard (where one hand really doesn't know what the other is doing) can ever be generalized as anything - including being anti-Poe. I have never witnessed any anti-Poe sentiments with anyone at Harvard - besides Lepore. of course.

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
Permalink   
 

Midnight,

I'm curious how these things get done.   Did an editor at 'The New Yorker' sigh to himself, "well, I suppose we ought to do something for that third-rate Poe; it is his 200th.  We could find a Poe scholar.  Nah, why bother?  Poe's not worthy enough to tap into someone who's an expert on him.  Such an expert might portrary Poe sympathetically.  What I want is a history person who can explain Poe's significance as a person in history, since he's not worthy as a writer."

How in the world they found LePore, I don't know, because Poe is obviously not her field. 

I think I know what 'The New Yorker' did.   They seized upon the current downturn in the economy and believing Poe a poverty-stricken wretch, as well as a charlatan, simply out to make a buck (sort of like a literary Madoff), they wanted to find someone who could explain Poe's poverty in the context of his day.

LePore agreed, making Poe's poverty and charlatan nature her thesis.  Her "research" probably consisted of reading the Silverman biography and some general outlines of his life.  I know there have been scholars in the past who have sneered at Poe's "Philosophy of Composition," basically approaching it from: he didn't write the Raven that way! Liar!   I can't recall who, but a number have taken this ignorant position.

As far as the Harvard grudge, I do believe it.   I think we need to be like Dupin himself to track it down.   We have to ask: what is unique about the way Poe is treated?    I don't think any writer of his status is abused in mainstream highbrow organs as Poe is.   This is unique.   Nothing else compares.  Then we have to ask why?   Go down the list.   He's American, but that doesn't make him unique.  He was poor, that doesn't make him unique.   He was from the South, OK that narrows it somewhat, since how many pre-Civil War Southern writers are still talked about?
And go right down the list.   Critic who attacked New England writers, OK we're getting warmer, ETC

Monday


Back in 1984, Bloom explicitly said, 'if you like Emerson, you won't like Poe.'   Bloom put it in those very stark terms.    Think of 'Harvard' and 'New England' being rather interchangable.   





__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

An apt analysis, Monday. Clearly, Lepore just doesn't know her Poe, but she was clearly aware that it was his bicentennial year and thought she'd give it a go. I'm not sure how much of the power of Harvard was behind her (I don't personally think this is an extension of any Poe/Harvard rivalry) - but I do think her lack of scholarship is shocking. I don't personally think of the New Yorker as being particularly academic, but in general journalism makes some attempt to, you know, be factual. Unless this was meant to be another "Balloon-Hoax"?


__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Date:
Permalink   
 

Poe was the most successful magazine editor of his day. His circulation numbers broke records. Poe broke records with dignity, too. No lingerie ads.

Longfellow was dignified, too. So was Hawthorne. Emerson was chaste in his writings. None of these authors writings would have appeared next to lingerie ads in their day. Come to think of it, I cant think of any canonical authors whose writings appeared next to lingerie ads.

This is sort of like saying Glamor magazine blew Henry James out the water. Which it did. Henry James sold very poorly in his day, and it caused him to have a nervous breakdown.

Would Henry James, on his 200th birthday, in The New Yorker, or anywhere else, in a piece by a distinguished scholar from Harvard, be belittled around the fact that he (Henry James) couldnt sell books, a point driven home for the entire length of the essay?

I cant imagine it, but if it did happen, all the better for Henry James. The backlash against the review would probably help his reputation immensely.

Poe is fortunate, however, to be sneered at in public by a distinguished scholar every 20 years, or so. Harold Bloom did it to Poe back in 1984 (October 11) in the New York Review of Books, T.S. Eliot did a hatchet job on Poe in his From Poe to Valery (1949). Aldous Huxley did it in the 1930s and The Nation did it at the turn of the century. All these Poe attacks said the same nutty thing, too; that Poes immense influence in France was merely an accident: Poe was lucky to sound better in French than English, which is the oddest sort of attempt to turn a writers positive into a negative Ive ever heard.

The bottom line here is this, and we can see it in Jill Lepores childish rant against Poe in The New Yorker, as she repeats lies against Poes character which have long since been refuted by Poe scholars. (Poe was not found drunk, in Baltimore, nor was he dragged around Baltimore to cast votes, nor was he deeply racist, nor was he a liar, nor was he ruined by the Panic of 1937. LePore clearly did not consult the latest Poe scholarship, or any Poe scholarship that I can see.)

Even though LePore is a respected and distinguished scholar, and not only a professor, but a Chair, at Harvard, she drops all decorum, all scholarly respectability and judgment in her attack, and does this blithely and sloppily, in completely open sneer mode, because she knows she will be applauded by her peers at Harvard and Yale and Stanford, where distinguished chairs, Vendler, Bloom, Yvor Winters have never felt anything but contempt for Poe.

Heres the bottom line: Lepore, from her perch at Harvard, is fighting an old Harvard war by proxy, a war which goes back to the bad blood between Poe and Harvard man Emerson, Harvard Divinity School hero William Ellery Channing, and their friend William Greenleaf Eliot, T.S. Eliots grandfather. (Theres a host of other historical figures involved who did not like Poe on Emersons side of the ledger, including Horace Greeley, Margaret Fuller, and Griswold, but I dont have the space to go into it all here.)

Poe destroyed (with a stabbing, comic review) the poetic reputation of Channings nephew, Channing the Younger, who was living off Emersons dollar while anticipating a career as the first great transcendalist poet. Whitman came much later, after Poe was dead.

After Poes death, they breathed much easier, these transcendalists like Waldo Emerson and his friend William Dean Howellsto whom Emerson made the jingle man remark in a fit of rage when just-in-from-the-West Howells made the mistake of telling Emerson he only knew Channings work from a review by Edgar Poe. Howells would later publish Henry James in his role as editor of The Atlantic, Henry James another important anglo-american literary bridge, through his super wealthy father, in his friendship of both Emerson and T.S. Eliot.

Lepore is intent on reminding everyone who reads Poe, that, hey, did you know this guy hates you?

The public that swallowed that bird and bug ['The Gold Bug'] Poe strenuously resented.

How does she know this?

She continues: You love Poe or you dont, but either way, Poe doesnt love you.

Wait a minute. Why must we love Poe or dont? Cant we be like, you know, a scholar, and not be soblack and white?

And Poe doesnt love you?? Where is this coming from??

A writer more condescending to more adoring readers would be hard to find. The nose of a mob is its imagination, he wrote. By this, at any time, it can be quietly led.

Yes, and so? Time out of mind, writers have condemend the mob. Emerson did; why, at one time, or another, they all did; even Karl Marx. Yet this mob quotation is how scholar Jill LePore tries to convince us that Poe doesnt like us.

What is interesting here is not what LePore says about Poe, but what Poe has done to poor professor LePore.

Its almost as if Poe isnt *allowed* to be popular. She calls The Philosophy of Composition a lovely little essay, but, [she continues] as Poe himself admitted, its a bit of jiggery-pokery, too. Poe didnt actually write The Raven backward.

How does she know Poe didnt actually write The Raven backward?

She doesnt.

This is Lepores spleen talking again, the same spleen that sneering calls The Philosophy of Composition a lovely little essay.

She doesnt bother to quote from this lovely little essay (shes far more interested in rumors of Poes character) but heres one passage I like:

And here I may as well say a few words of the versification. My first object (as usual) was originality. The extent to which this has been neglected, in versification, is one of the most unaccountable things in the world. Admitting that there is little possibility of variety in mere rhythm, it is still clear that the possible varieties of metre and stanza are absolutely infinite and yet, for centuries, no man, in verse, has ever done, or ever seemed to think of doing, an original thing.

The fact is, originality (unless in minds of very unusual force) is by no means a matter, as some suppose, of impulse or intuition. In general, to be found, it must be elaborately sought, and although a positive merit of the highest class, demands in its attainment less of invention than negation.

[This I find particularly interesting: 'originality is by no means a matter, as some suppose, of impulse or intuition. In general, to be found, it must be elaborately sought']

Of course, I pretend to no originality in either the rhythm or metre of the Raven. The former is trochaic the latter is octametre acatalectic, alternating with heptameter catalectic repeated in the refrain of the fifth verse, and terminating with tetrameter catalectic. Less pedantically the feet employed throughout (trochees) consist of a long syllable followed by a short: the first line of the stanza consists of eight of these feet the second of seven and a half (in effect two-thirds) the third of eight the fourth of seven and a half the fifth the same the sixth three and a half. Now, each of these lines, taken individually, has been employed before, and what originality the Raven has, is in their combination into stanza; nothing even remotely approaching this combination has ever been attempted. The effect of this originality of combination is aided by other unusual, and some altogether novel effects, arising from an extension of the application of the principles of rhyme and alliteration.

When you actually READ POE, and forget about the little character snipes, well, isnt itrefreshing?

I dont know if Poe, loves me as his reader, as much as Jill Lepore loves me, as her reader, and Im sure Poe was near starvation or something to that effect, when he wrote the above words, and was worried deeply about the Panic of 1837, or some other historical event on which Jill Lepore is expert, but, in any case, Im glad Poe wrote what he did, and I get the added attraction of this Harvard Hate Poe on the side.



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

What bothers me about this binary conception of writing is that Poe straddles both sides more than any other author - and is never acknowledged for it. For crying out loud, Lepore even refers to "The Philosophy of Composition," where Poe says very clearly he aims to attract both the popular and critical tastes. She dismisses or ignores that, as well as all the critical work done on Poe to prove he was a serious artist, and instead takes the road that, hey, he was hungry one day, so he figured he'd whip up a few sentences and earn some bread.

The Southern Literary Messenger is a bad example because it was just so provincial. Even so, it marks the beginnings of Poe's criticism. It looks like Poe's editorial stint started with 500 subscribers and ended with 3500 - so it was certainly a substantial increase. I think it would be worth figuring out how new the magazine was when Poe took over before deciding how much credit Poe should be given. Interestingly, I'm reading about the development of the publishing industry during the early 19th century, and all signs point to Baltimore as a literary epicenter beginning as early as 1784. I would never have guessed it!

-- Edited by Midnightdreary on Thursday 23rd of April 2009 06:34:47 AM

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 37
Date:
Permalink   
 

Well, Lepore's piece puts Poe's "Anastatic Printing" article in a different context.  It's Poe hoping that the desperate economic fortunes of publishers could be improved.  (To say nothing of his beautiful handwriting becoming more valueable.) 

Midnight, what is the current thought about how much Poe increased the subscriber total to the Southern Literary Messenger?

I have read very few of Poe's letters.  Does he really come across as contemptous of his audience?  If he does, that's not conclusive as to how he really thought about it.  He could be joking, in a bad mood when he wrote, misrepresenting his motives, or trying to appear not to be attached to work he may really have valued.

And I think she really misreads Poe the short story writer as composing mostly macabre jokes.

Ultimately, I think she suffers from the false, binary distinction a lot of literary critics seem to have.  In their world, a work seems to belong to one of two camps.  There's the carefully considered, long worked on, elite targeted, art for art's sake camp.  And there's the opposite, hackwork aimed at a popular audience with its attendant financial reward, all hastily turned out.  

The strange thing about art is that history sometimes comes to value what, for the artist, were momentary trifles.  Poe's stories are no less interesting even if written purely for money.

The odd thing is that certain literary commentators still feed the need to devalue Poe's work and Poe the man.  And, like Roderick listening for Madeline, they seem uncertain they've really finished the job. 


-- Edited by Reynolds on Wednesday 22nd of April 2009 05:47:59 PM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

I should say: I thoroughly approved of and, in fact, enjoyed the cultural context of publishing and economy in the article. I'm working on a lecture on just that and it's influence on Poe. But, I agree with Reynolds: the Poe she presents is just a "write or die of starvation" kind of person, rather than someone with any integrity or interest in writing as an art (she does mention "The Philosophy of Composition," but the literary theory she presents there is undermined by how she later describes Poe).

What especially irked me is her conclusion that "The Raven" was written only because Poe was starving. Yes, Poe compared "The Raven" to "The Gold-Bug" - that they both had a run, but both were written for the express purpose of running. This quote has been read in many ways, and Lepore chose the most harmful interpretation to Poe. I have always read it as a simple prediction that the public would gobble it up - not "I only wrote this because I needed money fast." Such a view instantly rips away the notion that "The Raven" is actually a good poem.


__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 8
Date:
Permalink   
 

I've been reading her series of columns about Poe--God knows why--and let's just say I'm underwhelmed. She's merely another of the untold multitudes who clearly don't know jack about Poe but write with an assumed authority about him anyway. I'm getting mighty tired of them.

Plus, that cutesy style she strains to put on in her writing is really irritating.

__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 37
Date:
Permalink   
 

I liked the article.  Too often the economic hard times Poe lived under just gets a couple of paragraphs of mention.  This article reminds the reader constantly the economic straits Poe and the country were under.

I don't claim to know Poe's life or his letters in enough detail to start errors.  I do think the article is a useful reminder that most working writers are influenced by non-literary factors.

That said, I think the writer goes too far in the other direction.  The Poe of the article comes across as a consistent, cynical huckster with little artistry or genius.  He may, at times, have been one but, even if we see his stories as contemptous, pandering hoaxes that does not strip them of their value.  Art can come out of surprising sources and circumstances, and artists aren't always the best judge of the works' merits. 

The article's Poe reminded me a bit of another writer I'm fond of:  Philip K. Dick who also was frequently poor and whose work can, depending on your point of view, be seen as flawed but frequently brilliant or half-baked hackwork.


__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

Here is a link to a very long, and somewhat unsympathetic, article on Poe by Dr. Jill Lepore of Harvard in The New Yorker. A couple factual errors, some slight inaccuracies, quite a few distortions, many rumors accepted as fact (including the cooping death theory). I don't recall Griswold being an editor ofanything called New-Yorker, so that surprised me. I'd love to know what people think of this article.

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon recently spoke at Northwestern University and focused on Poe. The following link is an interesting response to it: http://www.northbynorthwestern.com/2009/04/32815/chabons-lecture-revisited/

Jill Lepore writes for The New Yorker a piece on Poe's interest in puzzles. http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2009/04/solve-edgar-allan-poes-cryptogram.html

-- Edited by Midnightdreary on Monday 20th of April 2009 07:29:10 AM

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

The Willis letter wasn't too exciting but it's interesting (to me) to see how he interacted with his business partner, G. P. Morris. It seems the two were quite friendly. And, unfortunately, as is typical for Willis, he didn't date the letter anyway.

As for this not-new Poe letter, it has been popping up all over the internet, in news articles and many blogs as well. It seems the masses are having a field day with this one. For one, they may be shocked that Poe does not mention cognac (which, ironically, one news article actually went with, even though the letter refers to juleps... am I missing something?). They may also be shocked that Poe was (surprise!) aware of his drinking problem enough to apologize for it. It seems, however, that the majority of these articles take the tone of "Here's Poe drinking again" with audible eye-rolling leaping off the text. My guess is that if a letter ever surfaced that didn't fit this bankable Poe-image (i.e. Poe happily admits to a friend he has been sober 18 months) it wouldn't get this much attention.

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 8
Date:
Permalink   
 

I don't claim to know exactly how these things work, but I believe you could "loan" whatever documents you had to some institution. They could stay there for awhile, available for view to whoever's interested, and then, if you ever decided you wanted the item all to yourself, you could retrieve it. Even if I had the money, though, I don't know if I'd put it into buying manuscripts. There are so many forgeries out there, I figure it'd be just my luck to be the one sold a pup.

Did the Willis letter say anything interesting? I love poking around in these unpublished letters from the past. Usually, anything really juicy is removed before they are placed in libraries, but every now and then you run into some lively bits of information.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

So it has been kicking around for a bit? Well, that's not as exciting I guess! It's good to see it in a UVa collection where it's more accessible to scholars, of course.

I wonder sometimes if I ever was able to purchase an original Poe letter or manuscript. Should I hold on to it or donate it to someone who is equipped to care for it and preserve it perfectly? There's a letter from Nathaniel Parker Willis to George Pope Morris (partners at the Home Journal) I saw for sale once and I'd love to have it... but then what???

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 8
Date:
Permalink   
 

I don't think that's a "new" letter--it's changed hands more than once, I think, since it first turned up on the public scene. I remember seeing it in an auction catalog awhile back, but the listing said nothing about the provenance.

But it's new to the U of V, at least. Odd letter, isn't it?

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   
 

Recent Poe news: a newly-discovered letter from Poe was recently acquired by the University of Virginia. The letter isn't particularly ground-breaking but any new find is always fun.

Read the article here.

__________________
It was night in the lonesome October, of my most immemorial year.
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard